They Really Did It.

[Amelia G]

interesting reading...............reading stuff like this makes me wonder why I've never run into anyone who likes atlas shrugged as much as I do

My Fabulous Book Club for Fabulous People is reading that for our next meeting, but I suck and haven't bought the book yet. I wish I could find an edition in a few volumes. I like to read in bed or in the tub and a thousand page book is hard to hold up.

Any specific edition you'd recommend picking up?

[One Eyed Cat]

One thing about this whole debacle actually gives me hope: I see people everywhere outraged ... but also giving more serious thought to the system and country we live in. I don't know what, if anything, will come of it. I do know this though: We need to keep this in our gut, come what may. They may well pass some crazy legislation this time. There may well not be a next time though if we just go back to our toys. This is the first true call to arms for our generation within the borders of the United States imo. Live your life and be happy, regardless. Don't ever forget that feeling you had when it first appeared someone had tried to throw a party and asked for a 10K minimum you didn't have. I can assure you none of us were invited.

OEC

[Mr Karl]

probably because ayn rand sucks monkey balls.

interestingly enough though I DO know of a group that probably loves that commie whore's rotting corpse much more than you do...

...Corporate CEO's!! Interviewed about what their favorite books were a very large percentage of them claimed that rand's books were pivotal in forming their world views.

I shit you not.

You see, you lazy socialist douches are just jealous that you didn't think of a way to rip off the nation's financial markets, and get them to hand over multi-million dollar golden parachutes just to get your incompetent asses out of the company.

Gawds I hate rand.

so,........ you've actually read the story?

[Mr Karl]

My Fabulous Book Club for Fabulous People is reading that for our next meeting, but I suck and haven't bought the book yet. I wish I could find an edition in a few volumes. I like to read in bed or in the tub and a thousand page book is hard to hold up.

Any specific edition you'd recommend picking up?

I think they're all the same..........It's a good story, except for the forty or fifty page "A is A" monologue..........skip that

[Mr Karl]

Atlas? I read it some years ago. I do understand it in a psychological sense. As macroeconomic theory? I do believe you need some basic ground rules that Rand would have ideological opposition to (read her defense of big business for example) in Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal. Economic power becomes political power in all but a few cases. Bill Gates has been a holdout to some extent. He was eventually forced to play the game due to the browser issue. Most eat from the trough of govt. So: At that level, I think Rand is kidding herself.

OEC

of course she's kidding herself, that book is a good story though, funny though the reactions it causes with certain people.

[Buster Friendly]

so,........ you've actually read the story?

Fuck John Galt.

Although whether I've read the book or not has nothing to do with my argument.

Which was that ayn rand, and specifically atlas sharted were cited as the favorite author, and book of a high number of interviewed CEO's, of the sort that led us into our current happy situation.

ayn rand was a communist infiltration agent, specializing in propagandistic tactics, specifically sent to the west to create a movement to discredit capitalism. It has worked beyond her wildest dreams.

[Mr Karl]

Fuck John Galt.



Which was that ayn rand, and specifically atlas sharted were cited as the favorite author, and book of a high number of interviewed CEO's, of the sort that led us into our current happy situation.

.

yeah, I've heard that, never could figure it out cause the books about getting rid of the ceo's.

[helcyon]

They may well pass some crazy legislation this time.

Wall Street does not deserve a bail-out. The Stock Market does not need a bail out. The CREDIT market is down the tubes and that's what needs attention. Even banks that are not particularly in a bad financial position cannot get deliveries of cash. They cannot lend it to you. It's getting all locked up. Banks are not keen to lend to other banks because they are worried about everyone else's so far undisclosed exposure. I lie awake at night worrying about banks and whether they are making enough dough.

Actually no I don't. From what I can see from here the great thing is that, apart from cretinous already rich money-market types, there has been an overwhelming unification of the general American public in opposition to Paulsons proposed "welfare for Goldman-Sachs/socialism for the rich" legislation. Apparently he literally got down on his knees to beg Pelosi to help him get the legislation passed. For sure he would let her do him with a strap-on - just write a blank cheque for my mates. He is like many Gold-Sack (gilded-testicle) Washington stooges they have placed there for "public service" and he owes them and he's fine with it. (Disclosure: The previous Aus PM Howard was a partner at the firm I work for and I was living around the corner from him. He was Bush's great mate but he honestly did nothing to help me. In fact one day some-one called the cops on me because they thought I was robbing my own house - probably him).

If it wasn't this time in the election cycle the legislation would've passed ages ago I bet. Republican candidates who are struggling cannot afford to vote for something so unpopular in their electorates if they want to continue on with their own personal aims of re-election. My bet is that it won't pass any time soon - like not in the next week. Any takers? It was looking better for it when the NYSE dropped a funky-magic 777 (I think) but it recovered somewhat yesterday which doesn't assist Bush/Paulson. Like I say - the stock market can FOAD.

[Buster Friendly]

Greenspan was member of her inner circle.

On it's own merits I'm not sure I really dislike the book nearly as much as I dislike the author.

Although it's been over 15 years since I read it, so maybe my visceral disgust with it has faded over time.

rand's ludicrous "philosophy" has been cited time, and again as a major influence among neo-cons, and the criminal corporate class as the ultimate justification of their brand of capitalism. (Which is actually Plutocracy.) I'm not going to get into it though because as you pointed out Mr.Karl the "A is A" speech is dull.

[Mr Karl]

Oh well.............I'll bet a lot of the good books have been written by fucked up people


the A is A speech is 'dull' because A is not always A

[One Eyed Cat]

Wall Street does not deserve a bail-out. The Stock Market does not need a bail out. The CREDIT market is down the tubes and that's what needs attention. Even banks that are not particularly in a bad financial position cannot get deliveries of cash. They cannot lend it to you. It's getting all locked up. Banks are not keen to lend to other banks because they are worried about everyone else's so far undisclosed exposure. I lie awake at night worrying about banks and whether they are making enough dough.

Actually no I don't. From what I can see from here the great thing is that, apart from cretinous already rich money-market types, there has been an overwhelming unification of the general American public in opposition to Paulsons proposed "welfare for Goldman-Sachs/socialism for the rich" legislation. Apparently he literally got down on his knees to beg Pelosi to help him get the legislation passed. For sure he would let her do him with a strap-on - just write a blank cheque for my mates. He is like many Gold-Sack (gilded-testicle) Washington stooges they have placed there for "public service" and he owes them and he's fine with it. (Disclosure: The previous Aus PM Howard was a partner at the firm I work for and I was living around the corner from him. He was Bush's great mate but he honestly did nothing to help me. In fact one day some-one called the cops on me because they thought I was robbing my own house - probably him).

If it wasn't this time in the election cycle the legislation would've passed ages ago I bet. Republican candidates who are struggling cannot afford to vote for something so unpopular in their electorates if they want to continue on with their own personal aims of re-election. My bet is that it won't pass any time soon - like not in the next week. Any takers? It was looking better for it when the NYSE dropped a funky-magic 777 (I think) but it recovered somewhat yesterday which doesn't assist Bush/Paulson. Like I say - the stock market can FOAD.

Hopefully, we stand up to these assclowns Bush/Paulson/Wall Street. If we don't now, it's gonna be a long time before we get off our knees. No, it won't pass this week. I am not looking forward to any post-election reconsideration though either.

[One Eyed Cat]

of course she's kidding herself, that book is a good story though, funny though the reactions it causes with certain people.

Yeah, was a decent read. I read most of her non-fiction as well.

OEC

[Raza]

Now to see if this will all spiral into anarchy.

If proper anarchy was achieved as easily as every other method failing, we'd have been set ages ago.

[Bikerpunk]

Fear not, they're bribing the SHIT out of various pols to get this passed.
They WILL bail these motherfuckers out.

[Bikerpunk]

[Mr Karl]

wow, looks like they acually did do it

[a_small_death]

As of this post senate has just passed the bail out. Now to see if the house passes it or if past events show, these ass moles will need a time out.

[One Eyed Cat]

Almost finished booking my final show of the year. I know in advance I will lose money. It will be worth it though.

Confirmed: Nicki Jaine
Request: http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/flowers-gone.shtml
Drink: Brandy
Attire: My Best

Not much else to say.

OEC

PS: What does this have to do with the bailout? It's how I have chosen to mark this period of time in my personal life and that of the country. My "emo" on this if you will.

[Amelia G]

As of this post senate has just passed the bail out. Now to see if the house passes it or if past events show, these ass moles will need a time out.

Hopefully the House will shoot it down again. I wrote to my representative. It was difficult too because the House.gov site and everything related were taking such a pounding to their servers, with all the people wanting to write about how pissed off this makes them.

[Raza]

Whooo, DOS by genuine indignation.

Course, this only happens when they try to take your money.

[a_small_death]

The bill has passed both houses and is expected to be signed by the president at anytime from today. Well folks remember that huge shit sandwich I mentioned early? Line is getting kinda crowded up here.

[Morning Glory]

they should have just passed it in the first place. instead they just wasted everyone's time. what a bunch of assholes.

[One Eyed Cat]

. o 0 So Bye Bye, Miss American Pie

OEC

[Ajax Knucklebones]

they should have just passed it in the first place. instead they just wasted everyone's time. what a bunch of assholes.

That's because they had to add all the Republican sweetners (Tax breaks for other fuckin' real people) before the house would approve it.

You're right, MG, it should have passed the first time....Well, at least the second time, but the Republicans wouldn't pass it. It seemed at first, this was so because the American public didn't want it to pass and all of a sudden the Republicans "cared". Yeah...Bullshit...They just wanted to add shit tax breaks for people who make a whole lot of more money than me.

God...I really hate this whole thing, believe it or not....But I do think it's necessary for the economy to move on and for the recession to not become a depression. I maybe wrong in my thinking, but, from reading alot of articles and from living "in the shit" first hand....We have to avoid a true bank run at all costs.

I just hope whoever gets elected worries more about our economy than bullshit wars abroad. Yes, we have to worry about the terrorists, but right now, if we don't get our own home in order, it really won't matter. Can't fight terrorists with a depression.

[Bikerpunk]

You really fucking thing this will help?
All it will do is make sure the money's there for the fat cats to pay themselves enormous bonuses for firing everyone.

New prediction: unemployment will hit at LEAST 7.6% before long, and get WORSE before it gets better.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Like I said.....I'm not totally sure it will help. We'll see. I haven't read the actual bill (don't even know if it's obtainable) but the whole golden parachute thing was supposed to be in there...Who knows? What I do know is that if these big banks can't get loans to get them through all these foreclosures than the whole bank system is seriously fucked. Unemployment will probably go up. Where I live, it's already 9%. But 7.9% is better than 50% (as in the great depression). Do I think this will fix everything? Fuck no! Do I think it's kind of a band-aid for now? Yup! But with out the band-aid the cut gets infected, maybe with a staph infection and then everything becomes shit. Hopefully now that the band-aid will slow the infection, the powers that be might actually take a look and see what we need to do to get the economy going again. If they get laxed and the shit goes to Hell, well, it probably doesn't matter how much our deficit is in the long run. We'd all be fucked anyway. With the bill passing...Or without.

The bill...In the long run...Was to give the government time to see what can be done.

BP, like I said before, these big banks our my competition. If it was any other time, I swear, I'd love them all to fucking fall. It'd make my job a whole lot easier....But....These big banks represent (At the moment) continuity in the economy. Take that away and everything goes bat shit.

You've moved to NY for a chance. Hopefully this will help in that chance. If all these big banks went under...Well...Then you're move would have been a waste because you'd still be somewhere that no jobs would be found.

I'm telling you, it's scary in the bank world right now. Customers just have no faith in the system. Take away that faith and then no more loans OF ANY KIND can be given. No loans (Hate to say it)...Than no business. No business, than no employed and then everybody's out of work....Period.

[Bikerpunk]

Like I said.....I'm not totally sure it will help. We'll see. I haven't read the actual bill (don't even know if it's obtainable) but the whole golden parachute thing was supposed to be in there...Who knows?

And you don't think they won't make out like bandits and cry out that there's more handouts they need?

What I do know is that if these big banks can't get loans to get them through all these foreclosures than the whole bank system is seriously fucked.

Boo fuckin hoo. Foreclose em, shut em down, reclaim their assets. Recompense the FDIC insured and take the property. JUST LIKE THEY DO TO US. Garnishee all executives' pay til it's repaid.

Unemployment will probably go up. Where I live, it's already 9%. But 7.9% is better than 50% (as in the great depression).

The height of the unemployment rate in the Great Depression was 24.9 percent.

Do I think this will fix everything? Fuck no! Do I think it's kind of a band-aid for now? Yup! But with out the band-aid the cut gets infected, maybe with a staph infection and then everything becomes shit. Hopefully now that the band-aid will slow the infection,

What's not needed is a bandaid. What's needed is to irrigate the wound.

the powers that be might actually take a look and see what we need to do to get the economy going again. If they get laxed and the shit goes to Hell, well, it probably doesn't matter how much our deficit is in the long run. We'd all be fucked anyway. With the bill passing...Or without.

I doubt it. We still gotta make stuff, and eat. The class of people who trade paper around all day can starve.

You've moved to NY for a chance. Hopefully this will help in that chance. If all these big banks went under...Well...Then you're move would have been a waste because you'd still be somewhere that no jobs would be found.

NYC area is more than Wall Street.

I'm telling you, it's scary in the bank world right now. Customers just have no faith in the system. Take away that faith and then no more loans OF ANY KIND can be given. No loans (Hate to say it)...Than no business. No business, than no employed and then everybody's out of work....Period.

They're bitching about the LIBOR rate being 8%. What about the 29% they jacked everyone's credit cards to? HMMMM?

[Ajax Knucklebones]

This is a waste of time BP...We can go round and round on this...Seriously. Me...I just don't have the will power so yeah...You're right on all accounts. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. I guess I'm just another ignorant fool.

[J. Babington]

Hmmm not to be uber cryptic/paranoid/nutzo but doesn't the whole "end of the world" in 2012 sound not so far off?
U have link that will make some sense but its kinda long movie and the part on the "banking" stuff isnt till the endish
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

[Amelia G]

I think the unemployment and more significantly under-employment rates are astronomically high. For example, if someone has a business and they are still trying to make a go of it, but their profits are down 50%, squeezed between high gas raising the price of everything and people have less to spare so spending less, that person is still considered employed, but their paycheck just got cut in half. If someone has their own business, they may not be able to get officially unemployed, but they could lose their business. How many businesses got demolished when they lost a lot of what they had over $100k in their payroll accounts? If someone is disabled to the point where they can only work one hour a week, they may not be officially unemployed or qualify for much help, but one hour of work is not going to pay a lot of bills. If someone is any kind of freelancer and they are getting one job now for every five they used to, they might not technically be unemployed, but they are still pretty much in trouble. The WHOLE economy needs to get better to fix that.

[One Eyed Cat]

We need to deleverage the economy. It will be painful. The rules need to change. I don't think this trillion will do much beyond (maybe) buy time while we get fucked up the ass like a bunch of peasants under the Tsar.

Having said, we're a bunch of morbid fucks who probably will survive it all.

OEC

[OliX]

You guys need to move out of USA.