How do you handle it when someone says something bigoted?

[Amelia G]

Sometimes, particularly in the workplace, one may have to deal with people who are generally competent but who periodically spout really bigoted nonsense. When I was closer to having been in school and believed that ignorant bigots were the true minority, I used to get into heated debates with such people. Over time, I have sadly noticed that bigotry is not the stuff of history books and I feel pretty rotten about it, but I, after living in Georgia, I learned to hold my tongue when people irritate me with their ignorant views and just try to change the subject.

Of late, I've been on a real mission to be the kind of person I want to know. I don't favor the sort of person who cringes and bears it, so I've been speaking up. I haven't been getting into screaming matches or anything, usually just quietly saying "I don't really agree with that" or very occasionally "that racist statement is factually flawed in the following way."

But I feel like this is not going over very well and I was wondering how other people handle this sort of thing.

[Kidthorazine]

I usually start arguing I am very aggressive about my views and i make shure i can back them up which most people i dont argue with dont do. So yeah i argue with bigoted people a lot and its gotten me in trouble plenty of times but i dont regret it at all.

[killerkat]

i've been exactly the same way,i've just gotton to that point like those old men that just don't give a fuck about anything to keep their views inside....

a good measure of incompetentness is,this board has the most viewed,intellectual,ect,people i've ever come in contact with,and ,no offence all you,us,here,BUT that's sad..........becuse i'm talking about the ,what, maybe, 30 or so regulars on here........

now when people see me wear a shirt reading "Yee-Haww is NOT a foreign policy"and are fucking pricks with their cop-like interrogation, i don't brush them off and walk away ,i stand their with my chin up,and tell them in the most educated way i can,my views on the subject,and that we're all different ,we all have different ideas,even though this rarely does anything..........YEA Georgia SUCKS.....

another bit to it ,when i was younger, i used to invision having huge hands and grabing people's heads ,and screaming "open you mind" and the like,with some really weirdly big open streched mouth......I quess i relized that that was not possible and wouldn't solve anything anyways..

so even thought it rarely,if ever!,works,all you can really do worth these people is talk to them as educated as possible........

EDUCATION=LIBERATION .........

[devil13]

bigots ARE ignorant and I would just treat them as such. how would you treat someone who was ignorant about something other than race? you may treat them like they where a moron. thats what I do and thats what I think of people who are ignorant. they are just morons period.

[Amelia G]

killerkat -- Too true, people who haven't spent real time in Georgia just don't know. I agree that genuine education equals liberation of the mind, but unfortunately not everyone seeks out education.

devil13 -- If someone thought something inaccurate about how to select the best blueberries in the supermarket, I might suggest a better way, but I certainly wouldn't push it if it bothered them and I wouldn't feel bad not saying anything to correct them. I wouldn't condescend and treat someone like a moron if they believed mistaken information about something trivial or less emotionally charged. At least to me, bigotry is a whole different level of mistaken information. I'm already finding it very stressful and unpleasant when I just calmly suggest to people that I for one do not share their views, so I can't imagine that calling them morons or condescending more aggressively to them for what they moronically think would work better.

[devil13]

devil13 -- If someone thought something inaccurate about how to select the best blueberries in the supermarket, I might suggest a better way, but I certainly wouldn't push it if it bothered them and I wouldn't feel bad not saying anything to correct them. I wouldn't condescend and treat someone like a moron if they believed mistaken information about something trivial or less emotionally charged. At least to me, bigotry is a whole different level of mistaken information. I'm already finding it very stressful and unpleasant when I just calmly suggest to people that I for one do not share their views, so I can't imagine that calling them morons or condescending more aggressively to them for what they moronically think would work better.

Im not talking about trivial stuff Im talking about someone who is real adamant or even pushy about thier ignorant views. didnt think you were talking about trivial stuff either. I mean, if you know allot about say photography and someone was trying to tell you how to take a picture and you knew they had no idea what they were talking about. you would think this person is a moron. wouldnt you?

[Amelia G]

Im not talking about trivial stuff Im talking about someone who is real adamant or even pushy about thier ignorant views. didnt think you were talking about trivial stuff either. I mean, if you know allot about say photography and someone was trying to tell you how to take a picture and you knew they had no idea what they were talking about. you would think this person is a moron. wouldnt you?

I would think they were a moron, but I wouldn't care. I wouldn't feel like I had to set them straight.

But when someone starts spouting bizarre opinions about Blacks, Jews, Mexicans, and homosexual men vs. lesbians, it really really bothers me. The last time I had to deal with this in the workplace, I shut the person down making it clear that I did not share their views, but I was really mortified to be in any way associated with someone who could be nice on so many levels yet think these sorts of things. I felt like I was too low key to really change their mind but aggressive enough that I upset them.

I think part of my problem is that I believe ignorant people desire education, only maybe they don't.

I guess I'm hoping that some posters here might have suggestions of how to express that sort of disagreement in the best way to change someone's mind without necessarily starting a civil war. I'd like to be better at dealing with this sort of situation.

[killerkat]

.

i say we start a mass uprising.........

i'd say ya got at least 4 or 5 here,haha.....

[devil13]

the best way I deal with a person I work with is just to just tell them to their face that I dont care to hear it. Im not here to listen to your veiws so if its not work related I dont want to hear it. if they have a problem with that you can take it up with your supervisor/ boss. if you are the boss than what you say goes, you can tell them to shut the fuck up and get back to work if you want.

[Kidthorazine]

i say we start a mass uprising.........

i'd say ya got at least 4 or 5 here,haha.....

thats sounds like a good idea...

[Amelia G]

the best way I deal with a person I work with is just to just tell them to their face that I dont care to hear it. Im not here to listen to your veiws so if its not work related I dont want to hear it. if they have a problem with that you can take it up with your supervisor/ boss. if you are the boss than what you say goes, you can tell them to shut the fuck up and get back to work if you want.

I think the problem with correcting people on such views from the supervisor/boss position is that the bigots feel, rightly or wrongly, like they can't totally freely debate it and, no matter how gently I express disapproval of or disagreement with bigotry, it somehow comes across as aggressive maybe because of our relative positions. I'd attempt to only work with people who had no such bigoted views, but that seems pretty impossible in general and definitely difficult to screen for. Plus, I believe in rewarding merit and I'd rather hire someone for being good at what they do than for sharing my politics. So those two values sort of conflict for me I guess.

[devil13]

I think the problem with correcting people on such views from the supervisor/boss position is that the bigots feel, rightly or wrongly, like they can't totally freely debate it and, no matter how gently I express disapproval of or disagreement with bigotry, it somehow comes across as aggressive maybe because of our relative positions. I'd attempt to only work with people who had no such bigoted views, but that seems pretty impossible in general and definitely difficult to screen for. Plus, I believe in rewarding merit and I'd rather hire someone for being good at what they do than for sharing my politics. So those two values sort of conflict for me I guess.

yea but you are still the boss and as such what you say goes after all you do sign their checks. if you say there is a policy of no bigoted remarks in the office they will have to abide by that.
I once had a boss tell me to wear my hat like a whiteman. I told him that I didnt know hats had instuctions on how to wear them let allone acording to your race. needless to say I was sent home for not being able to follow directions.

[Amelia G]

yea but you are still the boss and as such what you say goes after all you do sign their checks. if you say there is a policy of no bigoted remarks in the office they will have to abide by that.
I once had a boss tell me to wear my hat like a whiteman. I told him that I didnt know hats had instuctions on how to wear them let allone acording to your race. needless to say I was sent home for not being able to follow directions.

He told you to "wear your hat like a whiteman" ????????????????????? WTF is wrong with people. Not only is that almost certainly racist, but it shows damn poor communication skills. I don't think that even means anything. Argh.

[Morning Glory]

sadly I think there is a difference between bigotry and ignorance. it's not for a lack of education, these people know that they are racists, and they are purposely trying to be racist. I've never heard a person using calm non-inflamitory and non-rhetoric points that are backed up by facts and logical reasoning to defend thier position on why they hate a group of people for something that they have no control over.

[Kidthorazine]

sadly I think there is a difference between bigotry and ignorance. it's not for a lack of education, these people know that they are racists, and they are purposely trying to be racist. I've never heard a person using calm non-inflamitory and non-rhetoric points that are backed up by facts and logical reasoning to defend thier position on why they hate a group of people for something that they have no control over.

I tottaly agree, I also think a lot of theese people are misguided while not neccesarily ingorant i mostly blame mass media for this because the media breeds a culture of fear which leads to hate towards certain groups in the early 20th century it was Germans and Japanese, then it was Communists, now its Arabs and Blacks have been targeted by this fear culture media shit since the 1700s

[Ichigo]

I just sit quietly and let them think what they want. I've been friends with neo-nazis, and I just tend to look beyond their views and just focus on positive aspects about them. Sure, I will let them know what I think, and if they take it, fine, but if not, then oh well.

[Azekiel]

Devil13: bigotry is NOT ignorance. Ignorance is not knowing any better, bigotry is ignoring/mocking/not listening to anyone who differs from your views. to take an example close to hand: Morning Glory sometimes seems ignorant. YOU act like a bigot. ignorant people you can confront, argue with, try to explain things... bigots there's not a whole lot you can do, short of some kind of object lesson.

the worst are the ones who say 'I'm not racist/sexist/whatever but...' i have a bad habit of saying well yeah, actually, it is. lost a couple of jobs because of it. i just don't like the idea that people can, say, think that all black people should go back to africa AND think of themselves as non-racists.

(just read MG's post, and now i know why i fight with him all the time. thinks too much like me...)

also i'm curious:

I once had a boss tell me to wear my hat like a whiteman.

wow. how where you wearing it before?

[devil13]

Devil13: bigotry is NOT ignorance. Ignorance is not knowing any better, bigotry is ignoring/mocking/not listening to anyone who differs from your views. to take an example close to hand: Morning Glory sometimes seems ignorant. YOU act like a bigot. ignorant people you can confront, argue with, try to explain things... bigots there's not a whole lot you can do, short of some kind of object lesson.

the worst are the ones who say 'I'm not racist/sexist/whatever but...' i have a bad habit of saying well yeah, actually, it is. lost a couple of jobs because of it. i just don't like the idea that people can, say, think that all black people should go back to africa AND think of themselves as non-racists.

(just read MG's post, and now i know why i fight with him all the time. thinks too much like me...)

also i'm curious: wow. how where you wearing it before?

I was just wearing it backwards.

you are right about the definitions of the words but I really would watch what you say. I may act like that but I am coming from experience. I have had guys come to me thinking because Im white I share thier veiws when I dont. yes I am set in my ways. Im not looking to change how anyone thinks or feels. I am just telling my views on things and I dont think anyone here is going to change my views. I will admit to being wrong if I feel that I am wrong and in this case I dont think Im wrong. bigotry and ignorance go hand in hand when it comes to racists 1.) they are tought to be that way you are not born to hate. 2.) they actually believe that what they have been tought is fact backed by science and/or religion. 3.) when someones facts are that distorted nothing you can say will change them.

[BeautifulNytmair]

I can't stand people who are the pushy bigots but the little things don't bother me at all. I hear about people who say that they don't like the way a certain group of people treat them. I have never had a problem with anyone being any negative way towards me because I am open. I can sit and listen to this person or that person. They know I don't agree but I am not going to be a bitch and make things worse. I would rather explain the other side and how I feel and maybe change the racism a little for the better. Shutting someone down is going to just make them mad or give them a reason to not like whatever type of person you are.

[tatdownthere]

bigots are idiots!!!!

[devil13]

Shutting someone down is going to just make them mad or give them a reason to not like whatever type of person you are.

thats kinda my point. I dont need people in my life that are like that in the first place. I can pick and choose who I want to be friends with and if I dont want to be friends with a racist why should I care what he thinks of me? now there are some people who are not considered as my friend who I may see every day that are racist. I just tell those people I dont want to hear it, period!!! whats funny is when they start to say something racist to me first then they find out my veiws and they change thier tone or try to backstep or explain themselves.

[BeautifulNytmair]

thats kinda my point. I dont need people in my life that are like that in the first place. I can pick and choose who I want to be friends with and if I dont want to be friends with a racist why should I care what he thinks of me? now there are some people who are not considered as my friend who I may see every day that are racist. I just tell those people I dont want to hear it, period!!! whats funny is when they start to say something racist to me first then they find out my veiws and they change thier tone or try to backstep or explain themselves.

I am not saying you have to be friend with someone like that if you don't want to. I am saying that one day you run into that person, and they get this impression of who you are, and then what do they do to the next person they run into like you? Everyones racism starts small. I am sure people didn't just commit a hate crime out of no where. it is somewhat based on the interaction they have had in past experiences that makes it worse.

[devil13]

I am saying that one day you run into that person, and they get this impression of who you are, and then what do they do to the next person they run into like you? Everyones racism starts small. I am sure people didn't just commit a hate crime out of no where.

why should I care??? who are they to me??? and why should I try to change thier impression of me???
like I said before: 1.) they are tought to be that way you are not born to hate. 2.) they actually believe that what they have been tought is fact backed by science and/or religion. 3.) when someones facts are that distorted nothing you can say will change them.
thats why they commit hate crimes not because I told them to fuck off. the next person they meet thats like me will tell them to fuck off too.

[BeautifulNytmair]

I understand that. I more meant like......ok lets take gay people for instance. Some guys when a gay guy hits on them that is all they remember everytime they see anyone who is gay. That feeling that they got. The next one may have no interest in the bigot but that doesn't stop them ( the gay person ) from being beaten or killed

[incog]

It is always the ugliest dudes who are sure that every remotely good-looking guy is gay and wants them desperately badly.

[devil13]

I understand that. I more meant like......ok lets take gay people for instance. Some guys when a gay guy hits on them that is all they remember everytime they see anyone who is gay. That feeling that they got. The next one may have no interest in the bigot but that doesn't stop them ( the gay person ) from being beaten or killed

I can guess that the three guys who beat a gay man to death in West Hollywood had never been hit on or even talked to a gay man before they killed him. they dont do things like that because of someone trying to pick up on them. they do it because they are fucked up in the head, (most times)gang members, or because someone gave these guys the idea that god hates fags and that it is wrong.

[eat-my-stockings]

I have a lot of respect for the type who says what they think and voices their opinions but doesnt completely bulldoze everyone else in their way. its great being up front but not when you slam what everyone else thinks in the process.

[Morning Glory]

good call, eat-my-shorts.

btw, can I call you that from now on?

[sunkarma]

Good lord. I have experienced this so many times. I have been told that ethnic chicks can't be goth because we are darker than a paper bag...its all long black hair and pale skin.

I just ignore it. Ignorance has many forms. Sometimes, it's even funny.

I don't get mad anymore..it's just a waste of time and energy. I don't even speak up. I just look at them like they are stupid..roll my eyes..and continue doing my thing. Negative energy feeds off of acknowledgement. When you don't care to respond, it diffuses it..gives them nothing to go off of.

Gay, straight, white, black, indian...sexual orientation, color of skin, religion, it doesn't matter. We are all human (or vampire, depending on who you ask)

So that's what I do.
Ignore...

People will always be stupid and ignorant..so I just let them.

eventually, it'll catch up.


Sun karma

[inox]

Yeah, I tend to agree with Sun karma. You can't take on or get worked up by every asshat and expect to have even occasional peace for yourself. There are just too many fools of all stripes out there, and if it isn't bigotry they're exhibiting, you can bet it will at least be annoying and/or inane.

If someone expresses things that I find detestable, I merely seek out other conversation.

[Evilbink]

"EDUCATION=LIBERATION" Damn KK you nailed it.

It is unfortunate that common sense isn't so common anymore. Living in Detroit makes for a varied mix of bigotry. And I don't think that more than 1% of the people realize they are perpetuating the machine of hatred. Though they all cry out for their own freedom from persecution.

Personally, I feel the only way to stop the revolution of hatred is to stop participating.

[TheDeathKnight]

It depends what type of bigotry it is.

If they are intelligent, I will debate it with them.
Because I can understand some people's views on minorities, illegal immigrants, etc...
So by showing that I understand *why* they think that way, they are willing to talk to me
about it. Then I switch it around on them, and give them a different perspective on it.

But when people at work, etc, make racial jokes, etc, I usually just blow it off.
Some people make jokes, but are not actually racist, etc...
So I'd prefer not to seem like I am totally uptight about everything.
If you have a fit about it, you seem just as bad as anyone who has a fit
about a sexual comment, or a religious comment, etc... Getting all bent
out of shape about it, just makes a very hyper-politically-correct
environment, which is *really* oppressive in it's own way.
I want to be able to swear, tell sexual jokes, etc...
But if I have a fit about someone telling a racial joke,
then all jokes will be banned, etc... And then it makes
life no fun.

But if somone really does hold those views, I tend to talk to them
about it. It usually works, IF you can see their perspective.
One sided arguments never get anywhere.
You have to be able to see their side, to get through to someone...

One of the common debates I have with people, is about Iraq.
What I do, is tell them I support the troops, etc, but I also bring
up this concept: What if Iraqi troops had invaded the USA,
taken over, and were trying to change our government?
We'd be insurgents too. Even if we did not like the Republicans,
or Bush, etc, we would still be fighting to get foreign troops
off our soil. So that argument usually gets people to understand
why Iraqis are fighting against our troops. We'd want to get
them out, and then deal with our own internal matters later.

[devil13]

Personally, I feel the only way to stop the revolution of hatred is to stop participating.

Personally, I feel the only way to stop the revolution of hatred is to Kill Whitey J/K

[hewhoisagod]

I'm not one to hate anyone based on nationality, religion, or sexual preference. Those that are ignorant generally aren't after having to deal with a group that they don't like. Those that are bigoted are pretty much trying to get a rise out of people. Like I have to deal with the Phelps clan almost all the time. If you try to bring up passages in the Bible, they'll pretty much say that you're an idiot and you'll burn in hell (I laughed my ass off when two Mormon missionaries tried to argue with them). I graduated from a high school in Texas where KKK members were on the school board. Considering I grew up in a much more diverse area of the country. I couldn't believe half the crap I was hearing. But then I realize that most of these people aren't going to amount to shit.

On a side note, Mormons are probably the most racist of christian religions. If you don't believe me, get a copy of the book of Mormon. In the Glossary under God you'll find the following listings: the lord, almighty, heavenly father and white.

[devil13]

I couldn't believe half the crap I was hearing. But then I realize that most of these people aren't going to amount to shit.

you know the ones that dont amount to anything are usually your trailer trash and whatnot and they are usually just the ignorant ones that will end up going to jail for a hate crime.
what frightens me is the ones who are well educated and do amount to something. there are ones that are computer programers, City/State/Gov. workers, businessmen, lawyers, etc. etc. that have power, money, and knowlage. they make sure that the hate they spread is within the law so they cant get busted for anything. the ones that let the ignorant masses do the job for them.

[hewhoisagod]

you know the ones that dont amount to anything are usually your trailer trash and whatnot and they are usually just the ignorant ones that will end up going to jail for a hate crime.
what frightens me is the ones who are well educated and do amount to something. there are ones that are computer programers, City/State/Gov. workers, businessmen, lawyers, etc. etc. that have power, money, and knowlage. they make sure that the hate they spread is within the law so they cant get busted for anything. the ones that let the ignorant masses do the job for them.

That's what scary about the Phelps clan. Almost all of them have at least some sort of degree at Washburn. The head of the group, Fred, used to be a civil rights attorney, but he was disbarred for his religious beliefs. His daughter is now the attorney for the group.

[Amelia G]

you know the ones that dont amount to anything are usually your trailer trash and whatnot and they are usually just the ignorant ones that will end up going to jail for a hate crime.
what frightens me is the ones who are well educated and do amount to something. there are ones that are computer programers, City/State/Gov. workers, businessmen, lawyers, etc. etc. that have power, money, and knowlage. they make sure that the hate they spread is within the law so they cant get busted for anything. the ones that let the ignorant masses do the job for them.

I'm uncomfortable being classist and I'm uncomfortable with being defeatist. I was brought up with the idea that all Americans could be upwardly mobile (or downwardly if they didn't finish their homework ) and that we make our own destiny.

I'm not sure I can accept the idea that, if I employ anyone whose parents ever lived in a trailer, they just are going to have some unevolving bigoted values and, if I have them work with other non-racist people, I just will be embarrassed by the things the folks from trailerland say and there is nothing for it.

I like to believe that people can grow and improve and where there is a will, there is a way.

[Amelia G]

Oh yeah, and I'm not talking about an occasional off-color joke, I'm talking about hate speech. I like swearing and talking about sex too, so I try to be chill.

And what is the Phelps clan?

[devil13]

I'm not sure I can accept the idea that, if I employ anyone whose parents ever lived in a trailer, they just are going to have some unevolving bigoted values and, if I have them work with other non-racist people, I just will be embarrassed by the things the folks from trailerland say and there is nothing for it.

it was meant as a general discription not meant to be taken literally. I dont think that everyone who lives in a trailor is a racist. it was just to get the point across about the ones who control the lower minions, the propaganda mongers who are the real root problem. I mean you will find people who are racist and some people that dont feel that they are but they might make the ocassional race joke but the ones who try to get young, poverty level kids to go out and commit hate crimes are down right deplorable. dont you think?

[Amelia G]

it was meant as a general discription not meant to be taken literally. I dont think that everyone who lives in a trailor is a racist. it was just to get the point across about the ones who control the lower minions, the propaganda mongers who are the real root problem. I mean you will find people who are racist and some people that dont feel that they are but they might make the ocassional race joke but the ones who try to get young, poverty level kids to go out and commit hate crimes are down right deplorable. dont you think?

Oh, hell yeah, I agree with that.